Mimi -- i've always thought the French use a better brand of coffee - and there's no question that adding hot milk makes an enormous difference.

I only drink Cafe au lait in the morning but mine never tastes as good as it is in France. Same with my hot chocolate.

OHHHHHH - I love strong coffee. As a result, I am a pain in the neck when I am in the US. I need to order a double espresso. Plus - if I'm at the apartment where I stay in DC, I have two coffee pots. One for me and the other for "normal" Americans.

PS to Al -- I do like American coffee too -- my fave is 7-11! :)

Oh I LOVE café creme! I make it about once a week at home but... it's just not the same is in Paris. My last trip, the first thing I did after checking into the apartment around 2pm was hit the street, find a nearby café and order up a creme! YUM! Called my mom to tell her I was in and all good, As I sat outside lovin' that creme. I remember sighing on the phone and telling my mom... "jeeez, I can see the towers of Notre Dame from where I'm sitting." I think that's part of "lovin' the creme in Paris." It seems to fit with the general atmosphere better there. Anyway, it was more a tabac with tables outside than a café, just near the rue Rumbateau Metro but man! they made a mean creme. I think I stopped there 2 or 3 times a day and they came to know me and my creme. The waiter giggled each time as he saw me pull out my little pink Sweet-n-Low packet while stashing the sugar packet into my handbag. I save them... don't know why. I now have a sugar bowl full of sugar packets from Paris. (any old souvenir will do?)

I would never have traded that tabac/café for a McDo. No way! The local people-watching was too cool as they came and went for cigarettes, phone cards or to stop in for a quick café or drink of what ever... all seeming to know each other. I wonder if I had "American tourist" stamped on my back to them...?

And there was one close by on rue de Rivoli. There's also no way I'd have traded a crispy confit de canard or salade chevre chaud déjeuner for a lunch burger at McDo. I wonder if I'd feel differently if I lived there.

Nobody is offending me on the coffee. I much prefer American to French....I like coffee black and creme is out.Expresso is what I like of the European coffee and black French coffee is too bitter. Also, if in the late evening I like to have a bun and a coffee the French cafe doesn't satisfy as aMcDo or the seattle brand.

In the US I don't patronize McDo but if I'm around at breakfast time in the US, a freshly made scrambled egg on an English Muffin sandwich is a great McDo specialty. Trust me!!!

GEE -- Al: Please read my post of August 14th. I think we are AGREEING!!

I'm glad that Ron's view of customers at McDo etc were mostly French locals (and perhaps European tourists) rather than Americans. I agree with him. That Karen spotted a bunch of Americans, I don't doubt. It was August and Paris is loaded with young Americans then. And what's wrong with American coffee??? like Jerry Lewis, it's a matter of taste. I didn't like the Lewis movies BUT can you imagine if the French saw the original presentations in front of the bandstand with the Dean Martin stichks there would probably be a Lewis bust somewhere on the Champs.

Ron - you are ever so right. And people are smoking in CHINA with a vengeance - whereas many French and Americans have stopped.

Go figure.

It seems like McDo's and Starbucks (Odeon) are almost always crowded when I pass by--mostly
with locals. It is rather surprising to me. Then again, the French purportedly love Jerry Lewis,
so go figure. ;-)

COLOR ME STUMPED TOO. I understand French parents taking their kids to McDo's when it hot and they're in the country. (rather, outside of Paris). McDo's have indoor playgrounds (much bigger than the usual in the US) and they're domed and air-conditioned.

The one in Orange has bleachers so parents can watch their darlings play and more. On really HOT days, you might have spied me having a salad and a beer.

And remember - in other parts of Paris - there are plenty of French students. McDo's offers FREE WIFI .. they were the first and you can order your meal at a terminal and pay with a credit card which negates waiting for the lines that go on forever! You have to give it to the Golden Arches. They are great at marketing.

Karen, the only explanation I can offer for American tourists buying coffee at McDo's is maybe it's cheaper at McDos? When I visit Paris, I am allll about the French café (and food!) and I wouldn't dream of going to McDo's for it. I don't even go to McDo's here is USA for coffee -- why in the world would I do it in France??? I did stop in a McDo's in Paris also but only to see who was packing the lines. I saw mostly American and Asian tourists on the long lines. I'm sure there were French there too, but I heard lots of American English... and it really made me laugh, with all of the amazing food choices in an amazing city... nope, not for me!

Yet I'm not surprised. When I came back from my last trip, I was talking with a co-worker, mostly about food in Paris... a few more co-workers came over and they asked me, "Can you get a good cheeseburger there? What's the pizza like?" Odd? I think so! I just don't want or even think about searching for American-type foods when in Paris... And I don't mean to offend anyone either, really I don't, but going to McDonald's in Paris seems just plain silly to me -- unless if you have small children and are on a tight budget. Otherwise, color me stumped!

There are McDonalds everywhere and they are having an impact. More French people are gaining weight and it's sad to watch their chowing down French fries. The other day when I was walking down the Rue du Rivoli, I went into the McDo's there. Not only were there French people but the line was filled with American tourists. What were they buying other than food? COFFEE. I hope I'm not offending anyone but I don't consider coffee from McDo's better than what you can get in France.

In today's NYTIMES financial section the latested report on McDonalds showed a 4.3% increase while for the same period the European area showed a 7.2% increase mainly thru increased business in France and Britain.

I get a big laugh when I remind myself when all this started one group of Americans were embarrassed by what they thought was a bad American feature to introduce to France. Same group that are upset if an American laughs too loud in a restaurant.

In the USA we find Starbucks located to another almost right next door and without seemingly big problems.
In my observation their main customer base seems like college age and a bit above but obviously I must be wrong because I hardly believe it would support such a success in the US. By the same token I doubt in France that its success in France is due to Am,erican tourists. In my last coffee in a French Starbucks I think my wife and I were the only Americans....but the age group was definitely young.And this defies the average age going higher. Starbucks (in the USA at least) is relatively expensive...another reason to question my observation.

Well, Toulouse McDo closing was never a symptom of the firm bad health. It was at least ten years ago, but if I remember well this bankruptcy was so surprising that it deserved an analyze by the “Herald Tribune”.

Toulouse is known for its gastronomy, and you can find in the city many places where you can eat delicious local meals. But the main reason for this McDo’s dying was the concurrence of a… McDo, better situated and at less than 1km from this one.

Christophe (and we are SOOOOO glad to see you ;-)

Your statement intrigued me.

This is posted in a financial page -- dated today.


MCDONALD'S EXPECTS 2Q LOSS

CHICAGO — McDonald's Corp. said Monday it expects to post its second quarterly loss in more than 50 years because of a hefty one-time charge on the sale of some Latin American operations.

But the world's biggest fast-food restaurant chain said its business is growing because of momentum from its popular breakfast menu.

McDonald's said it expects to report a net loss of 60 cents per share when it releases second-quarter earnings July 24.

But excluding a $1.31-per-share charge for the sale in Latin America, McDonald's said it likely would surpass Wall Street forecasts and earn 71 cents per share from continuing operations for the quarter ending June 30. That's a 27 percent increase from the 56-cents-per-share profit it posted a year earlier.


ON THE OTHER HAND, I'm not going to take pity on the company's stock holders. Ray Krock did well by them ....

You're perfectly right. In France "McDo" is just a convenient place where to eat when you have no time to lose and where you're sure that you won't have any bad surprise (nor good, by the way).

Nothing exotic in there. And by the way, they adapted to the French taste, by providing salads more adapted to customers who didn't want to spoil their diet in one meal, even if they are almost as fat as a regular Big Mac ("they" refers to the salads, not the customers).

It's ideal in travel, and kids love it (eating with fingers, yummy !)

By the way, Toulouse used to be famous for being the only place in the world where a McDo bankrupted (I'm not sure it's still true).

I hardly think that McDo in Europe has exotic appeal any more as it probably did in thebeginning. It is popular for what it is rather than as an import.

In NY Chinese and Italian food (whether in the restaurant or take out) are so so popular and I would guarantee that most of us hardly think of it as exotic foreign food. They are standard options without a romantic attatchment.

Ellen: I would tend to agree with your theory. (Sorry, St. G.) I saw a documentary recently about McDo's and its expansion into Mainland China. There are already something like 8,000 and the number is projected to double before the Oympics.

The Golden Arches have joined with the country's #1 gas distributor. McDo's has introduced its first drive-thru ......something the Chinese have to be taught how to use. Now THAT concept is really foreign.

I think it is more a question of cost and what you are familiar with, as distinct from what is foreign. At least with the Starbucks that you mentioned, whenever I walk by it seems that most of the time the customers going in are either students or tourists from the US.

When my son and I went to Paris a couple of years ago, he craved Starbucks, so we went to the one at Place Odeon (I think?). At the table behind us, a French father was savoring his frappuccino while his daughter was enjoying her happy meal. The Starbucks was overflowing.

Don't you think part of the attraction is that it's "foreign" - or different? I think we get used to what we've grown up with and what's new and different is attractive.

Louise and others:

Please remember that being able to feed a family at McDo's, in some countries, is a sign of affluence. Sad but true when you consider some of the meals' nutritional value.

But - if there's a play-gym, an outing to McDo's can last hours and hours.

I've seen parents in France spend the day reading or talking with their friends while their offspring play in the super safe (and now- sometime AC'd) environment.

One evening, while dining alone, I was seated near a table of French
and Japanese business people. As their common language was English,
I was able to listen in on their conversation. A universal complaint
was that during Saturday family excursions the only place the children
from either France or Japan wanted to have lunch was McDonald's.

Louise

When my son lived in Morocco, he said families dressed up to have a night out at McDonald's. It was the place to go.